Ep 5: Driving Meaningful Change in Corporate Purpose & Sustainability through Indigenous Reconciliation

In this episode, Alexandra Biron takes us through her journey from a family rooted in community and volunteerism to a career in Corporate Purpose & Sustainability. She shares how the field has evolved to encompass Indigenous reconciliation, and environmental sustainability, highlighting the competitive advantage and talent attraction benefits of purpose-driven work.

Alexandra and Julia dive into key challenges in corporate responsibility, including the need for transparency, impact measurement, and ensuring commitments translate into meaningful action rather than just a PR exercise. They explore how organizations can create inclusive spaces for Indigenous Peoples, the importance of reconciliation strategies, and how businesses can lead with education, intention, and Indigenous leadership.

They also discuss mental health in the workplace, the role of social media in corporate accountability, and the need for broader representation of Indigenous and Black histories in Canadian content. Alexandra shares her work with Indigenous organizations and offers insights on meaningful community engagement.

The episode wraps up with a heartfelt discussion on passion, storytelling, and the power of learning from diverse experiences. Alexandra and Julia reflect on the impact of sharing stories, shifting perspectives, and leading with heart in the journey toward meaningful change.

Transcript

Welcome to #FEMPIRE Today's guest is an absolute powerhouse when it comes to driving real impact around reconciliation and corporate social responsibility. Alexandra Biron. is the senior manager of Deloitte Indigenous, where she's leading the execution of Deloitte Canada's Reconciliation Action Plan, turning commitments into meaningful change. With a degree from Wilfrid Laurier University, she majored in Business Sustainability and has a Graduate Diploma in Social Responsibility from the University of Toronto. Where she even won the President's Award for her incredible capstone project titled Deloitte's Indigenous Impact Report. Alexandra brings over a decade of experience working in the non-profit and private sector around community investment, employment engagement, strategic planning, and program development, She's proud of her Anishinaabe Ojibwe identity and is committed to furthering both reconciliation and innovation in support of making an impact in Canada for Indigenous and non-Indigenous peoples. Let's tune in. And chat with Alexandra Biron.

 Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of #FEMPIRE And I have the lovely senior manager of Deloitte Indigenous here with us, thanks so much for being here, Alexandra How are you today? I'm well. Great to see you, Julia. Very excited to have a discussion with you. And looking forward to it. So I want to dive in a little bit about your background. And your, journey to where you are today. you have a degree from Laurier in Business Sustainability, So what made you choose that degree and how did that land where you are today at Deloitte? Yeah, it's interesting. I would say that, striving for positive change has always been important. Deeply rooted in who I am from my family. I've always loved to be connected to community and started volunteering from a very young age. When I was doing my undergrad at Laurier, I did have the pleasure of being part of the co-op program And I knew I had excelled in finance and accounting, and so I was in my first few co-ops, it was in that area. but it wasn't until my last co-op when I was working at Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment. I was doing the bookkeeping and accounting for the MLSC Foundation that really opened up my world to corporate social responsibility, which at the time was slightly newer. It wasn't a common, Known term, I guess, around corporate Canada. And so I decided to major in sustainability, really focusing on that social impact perspective. And after university I started my career in the not-for-profit area and this was such valuable experience because it directly feeds into corporate social responsibility and those sponsorships and relationships. and then joined Deloitte in 2018. I joined on our corporate responsibility team, which was really leading our social impact strategy at the time, and directly working with not-for-profits. So I had joined from Civic Action, which was a not-for-profit, which was a society partnership of Deloitte. So there was a nice connection there. And seeing from different sides and having those relationships was incredibly beneficial. I would say within Deloitte, you know, I've been really lucky to be within the purpose-driven work within the corporate sector. I don't think everyone has that experience, but I've been lucky to be within this space and I think generally what I've learned from my journey so far is just the power of relationships across sectors. Finding a common vision and commitment, really finding that collaboration, and then on a more personal note, just having continuous learning and development opportunities. cause your career can definitely go in many different directions. Absolutely and I think that's always like the biggest theme when I have these conversations with folks is like they'll study one thing or another opportunity comes and like the world is really your oyster because there's so many connections that can kind of get made and you just kind of have to roll with the punches sometimes. but that's amazing that you got to actually, come into like a newer field. I think there's still improvement in workplaces when it comes to diversity inclusion, especially. What companies' reconciliation commitments are. But seeing it from its early stages, how have you seen it, evolve from when you started off back in university to where we are today in the corporate sector. I would say at the time there was very few roles And if there was, it was maybe like one or two people in a corporation over the years, definitely there's been an increase in rules and dedicated support for these pieces, but I think broadly what social responsibility has evolved into is there's so many different layers. Like you said, there's diversity, equity, inclusion, and accessibility. There's reconciliation action plans. There's environmental sustainability. there's ethics. There's so many different areas, that organizations are honing in on. And I would say, Deloitte, while I started on the corporate responsibility team, it really evolved into, leading our firm's reconciliation action plan. And so while I formally left the corporate responsibility team to lead the initiation of this plan, there is still a lot of overlap in our work. and many years later we've now come together within the purpose and sustainability office at the firm which is amazing to see but I would say overall it has evolved definitely and certain organizations are choosing to focus on Different topics as part of their priorities and commitments. And going back to it, corporate responsibility and social impact are such huge themes. I don't know if this is a bit of a philosophical question, but Why do you think there's been a shift or more of an awareness from corporate organizations to focus on this? do you think it was consumer push? Do you think it was a natural market push? I don't know if you, you'd have the answer, but I'm just curious. Again, similarly to where you started to where you are today and how you've seen the sector evolve. Because it feels like it's a foreign, like my parents are boomers and if I told them about corporate responsibility they'd be so confused about what that meant. I know it's a big topic, but if you could share a little bit about what that is and maybe where you think it kind of got started from. Mm-hmm. It's a good question. And I think there's a lot of factors that are contributing to the evolution of what Corporate social responsibility means or what purpose-driven work is. I think overall, The stats are out there that companies are realizing that there's a huge opportunity. If done correctly, there is a huge competitive advantage. There's many outcomes to that, but also I think one of the biggest ones is that it is a talent attraction and retention tool. We're seeing, the younger generations that are graduating from university, they're putting the pressure on employers. to be taking a stance or to be investing in communities or advancing reconciliation or having D and IA commitments generally across the board and so I would say there is almost a push and pull, and that is from, investors, that is from broader stakeholders, but it also is a huge component around talent attraction and retention of top talent across Canada.

Hmm, that's really well said. And that actually brings to mind just a bit off topic, but conversations around mental health. And something that still really resonates for me is in my last job we had some younger interns like Gen Z's there and we got into this conversation around mental health and this individual actually thanked me. And thank millennials for ushering in these conversations around mental health, conversations around what burnout is. it's something that still kind of sticks to me, but it's really important that we have these types of conversations and normalize it and take away that stigma around mental health and other issues.

so I know it's not necessarily corporate responsibility in maybe the traditional sense, but It's really interesting to your point of like talent acquisition and what the younger generation's coming up and expecting from the workplace. and I think remarkable in a sense too, and we've seen that work-life balance is very important and, our lives don't just revolve around work, so. Having that balance, but also, again, more broader of what are we looking at ethically when we're investing or how can we make sure we're making more inclusive workplaces in different capacities. And I would say it is, connected to our reconciliation action plan at Deloitte. Certainly the employment pillar is all around how we're creating more inclusive spaces for Indigenous people. So we are often looking at Benefits and wellness, which relates to non-Indigenous and Indigenous peoples at large, and I think it's an important topic. Mental health in the workplace is top of minds for all leadership right now, and And so we're trying to understand, what are those spaces we need to create for Indigenous peoples at the firm to thrive? And does that look like flexible working arrangements? More remote or hybrid working arrangements, even having more connection circles, elder ceremony, you name it. There's a lot of different tactics that we're looking at to address that very topic. And it's so important to also have that first-hand experience. You mentioned about community as well. How have you brought your own community perspectives to your role? Because I think that's really important as well. How has that been impactful for you and your job? Well, it's a good question and I would say the work that I'm leading now is very core to my identity. I am mixed ancestry, so European settler and also Anishinaabe, but there is something so personal about wanting to connect to your ancestors, work through the healing of intergenerational trauma. Just generally playing a role to advance reconciliation for the generations to come. I know that A lot of that is focused on empowering and enabling Indigenous youth to be heard and really driving important actions on what's to come aligned to the seven generations principle. I would say oftentimes I continue to be guided by the seven grandfather teachings, which are often, human values, but very rooted in indigenous, cultures. So wisdom, love, respect. bravery, honesty, humility, and truth. I don't personally claim to be an expert on indigenous cultures. I did not grow up on reserve, but I have definitely been connected to my dad's side of the family and learned a lot over the years in my experiences and different roles. And even at the firm, we have a cultural competency training, I always look to find opportunities to bring more diverse voices into spaces and I know the firm has done a great job at that over the years. How can we bring in Elders and chiefs and indigenous business leaders and knowledge keepers and youth, to the spaces that we're having, not just to do opening our land acknowledgements. But also to really embed Indigenous knowledge into our firm, which is so incredibly valuable. There's more to come, I would say. But generally, we are leaning on the premise of nothing about us without us. And so our practices internally, our reconciliation action plan, our nation building, and RADIUS practices at the firm are all Indigenous-led, and really Of course, having very strong allies on that journey, but understanding that Deloitte is predominantly non-Indigenous, ensuring that we do have representation and are collaborating with communities, collaborating with Indigenous-led organizations, to the best that we can. Wow, that was really powerful. That's amazing that you're part of that journey and also kind of leading and bringing those voices in because it is really important, I think. That's oftentimes what gets missed. Like you said, it's not just to come in and say an acknowledgement, but to share your wisdom, share your experiences within their communities or what their needs are and what are strategies because that cultural holistic approach. Is so, so important. I think people always forget that. because you need those perspectives. You don't understand the core of those issues otherwise, right? Absolutely. And having people that have that lived experience and having a range we have offices all across the country and so we can't just have folks based in one of their regions and so Really looking for that diversity. there's over 600 First Nations in Canada. And so how can we truly have, you know, a distinctions-based approach as well across First Nations, Métis and Inuit? It is definitely a journey that we're on. Absolutely. I can only imagine. And it's, great to hear some steps taking, forward, but obviously a lot more work to still do.

Have you ever experienced, some challenges or opportunities you've encountered while working in the corporate social responsibility space Whether it be pushback or financial challenges, what has your experience been in this sector? I would say there's, I think with any role, there's definitely challenges and certainly within the corporate social responsibility space. there's always going to be people that don't understand the value of And so needing to be very articulate and crisp around the business case and really sharing that to leadership, to perhaps your board, depending on what organization you're in. I think ongoing, the changing dynamics of the world, which I know right now there's tons of that. there's companies that are going through ebbs and flows and strains on resources. And I think there's a higher level of scrutiny on how we're truly measuring impact. I know as it relates to sustainability, there's a lot around greenwashing and folks being very critical of what true actions or impact are taking place, and from a reconciliation perspective, Some also, are using the term redwashing on, organizations that are just putting commitments out to, to say that they're committed to reconciliation, but truly there's nothing being done internally. And so I think, yeah, there's constant challenges along the way, but I think how Organizations are ingraining it and embedding it into the DNA of the organization and really as part of, their shared values and commitments versus the organizations that are just doing it as, a clear PR activity. You're really seeing that divide and I think definitely more as of late, so yes, I would say ongoing challenges for sure. But I would say there's a lot of opportunities. I know we spoke about those a little bit earlier, just generally around, if this is done correctly, there can be a huge competitive advantage. There's, tons of talent and attraction and retention, really to, cater to the next generations of leaders. And there's also huge opportunities as it relates to reconciliation. The economic reconciliation with Indigenous communities is important. Booming right now and if you're truly committed to this journey and investing in community that provides you the social license to operate. And we're seeing that many corporations are creating joint ventures, equity partnerships with Indigenous organizations. this is necessary for the prosperity of our country at large. Yes, absolutely. And I think a few points I want to pick out from there with, with regards to greenwashing I'd be interested in your take on how I feel like social media has been a huge, going back to this, like, younger generation and holding kind of corporations accountable. Social media has played, I think, a huge part of calling out corporations who can't show the receipts. They can't provide the receipts of them actually making those social impacts. so I'm curious if you've also seen that or maybe what role social media Either in a positive sense of bringing awareness to these issues or maybe in the negative sense of, putting pressure on organizations to do these things but not actually executing them properly or bringing in Maybe the right folks to help implement these kinds of programs. It's very interesting. I think social media is a definitely a powerful tool for good and bad. but I would say. on the opportunity side, I think it is a good opportunity for people to share the good stories that are happening and highlight great examples and spotlights of meaningful work that is taking place. I know from the perspective of our work at Deloitte, we are really committed to being transparent in our journey of reconciliation because we know historically, with colonization, communities are used to being transparent. Over-promised, under-delivering. We don't want to fall within that category and so how can we set realistic goals, ensure there's accountability, ensure there's transparency as well, like it's not just going to be, a linear Journey forward, it's going to have many challenges and hurdles along the way and if we can help to take moment to acknowledge the strides, but also acknowledge the challenges we're still facing. I think that helps to create more trust. and respect with communities, with peoples, even non-Indigenous peoples, just generally across the board. and that is something I think is we've adopted as a best practice to really position us on this journey. And that is one of the key learnings that I often share is people that are working within this space, within reconciliation for different organizations, it's not to get discouraged when you expect, big change to happen overnight. You need to take the moments to celebrate the small wins that you're having because you have to remember that there's, decades and decades of Unlearning and relearning that we're trying to do and there's systemic barriers that you're up against as well. and so yes, need to stay committed to the longer term journey while definitely celebrating, some achievements and wins along the way. Absolutely. And going into that now a little bit deeper, what are some key elements that you think organizations should Consider when they're developing and implementing reconciliation strategies. Great question. A common question that I get because like I said, we were the first in corporate Canada to put out a reconciliation action plan. June 2020 And it's not because we're the experts in this area. We understood that the role that Deloitte has as the leading professional services firm in Canada, if we can start to do more to respond to call to action number ninety-two Hopefully other organizations will also get empowered and inspired to join upon the journey. And we've seen many organizations join the journey in the last five years, which is amazing to see. Certainly, definitely more to come across the board. But I would say, some of the key elements in what you should consider when developing, a reconciliation action plan or a reconciliation strategy is Really leading with education. there's a reason that we call it truth and reconciliation because you need to truly be grounded in the truth before you can reconcile. And we have led with that premise with our reconciliation action plan, education being one of the core pillars, and that stands as the foundation, but it is ongoing. For example, we launched a mandatory reconciliation education course at the firm, which has been very impactful and yes, very well received from folks, but understanding that For true education to come about, it needs to be infused all throughout our learning journey and ongoing. So I would say definitely leading with education. I think, number two, ensuring that you have The support and buy-in from senior leadership. I know several organizations that are, are trying to get that or they're up against, the support from their leadership. And I would say part of the reason why we've Made such great strides in the last few years is because we've had the support from our senior leadership team, our CEO and our board. it has been incredibly helpful to have the tone from the top to help shape the The strategy, the support, the culture all throughout the firm. thirdly, I would say this is something we spoke to already, but that this is a long-term vision and strategy. You cannot expect to have, huge Huge change happen overnight. I think it is creating those milestones, ensuring that it is being done in a meaningful way, collaborating with community, being Indigenous-led, and understanding the barriers that we're still up against. And to that point around being Indigenous-led, I think ensuring that you're providing ongoing opportunities for Indigenous peoples to share their voice and lived experiences. At all tables, you know, not just when we're talking about reconciliation, but all across the board. And ensuring that you have Indigenous peoples represented at all levels or striving to have representation at all levels. I know for Deliotte Canada, we've been very privileged to have two Indigenous women on our board, and they have been incredible champions of this work, but just Educators and brilliant minds that are bringing an important lens to our firm business strategy. ensuring that you have the right intentions. I think there are definitely organizations that are Hopping on to, it's like a PR initiative or it's a tick the box activity. indigenous peoples and communities can read through. Which organizations have the true intention are applying a value of reciprocity and are truly looking to build meaningful relationships versus the ones that You know, just say they are, but are having empty words or empty promises. And so I think just starting with the intention behind all of your work. Absolutely. knowledge is power. Education is power. and I really encourage people to put themselves in different spaces like, we met at IPAC, the Institute of Public Administration I was assigned on the, Truth and Reconciliation panel where we brought in some amazing speakers from across the country, but I wouldn't have necessarily maybe put myself in that opportunity if I wasn't working in the policy political world. It's frustrating because I think people do want to learn more, but they also don't know how or the resources. on that note as well, like social media is great. You can find some, Indigenous creators or influencers I've seen a bit more of it coming up on my page but More broadly, I think it's also great that your team in a corporate business sense are supportive of these changes because I think that's maybe even sometimes too where people might run into those challenges where Their senior management aren't on board with this or make up excuses. So it's really great to see that it's coming from the top and being carried out through yourself as a senior manager and hopefully to other junior folks at your firm. another thing too I wanted to point out is growing up in Toronto, and not learning about Yes, understanding truth and reconciliation, but also more broadly of like the great inventions and amazing indigenous leaders. I felt like we didn't learn about those kind of people and that goes That was also for Black History Month. Like, what do you only learn? You learn about slavery and Martin Luther King, but what about all the other brilliant Black inventors and other people who contributed to society, It's really frustrating that we don't learn more about that history. Completely agree. And I think what, the history books are writing or have written about Indigenous or other marginalized groups, it's always a negative connotation. I think that's starting to change from what I hear with, The children growing up, they are starting to hear about the powerful Indigenous leaders and they are getting a broader range of education where I know some of my Deloitte peers, they're often learning from their children now about our shared history. and oftentimes, you know, adults didn't hear about this or new immigrants, like this is all Quite new. I know in 2020 with the confirmation of many children's grave sites at former residential schools, that was a time of awakening. That people were hearing about residential schools for the first time. But like you said, I think there's so much opportunity to highlight the successes of communities and strengths and resilience of communities and so. I know, oftentimes June around National Indigenous History Month and National Indigenous Peoples Day is a time that people are celebrating and acknowledging this, but I encourage folks to find opportunities all throughout the year. to really bring that to light in their respective workplaces and, and personal circles as well. And that's the only thing, like, it shouldn't just be a month where you suddenly wake up and you're like, oh, hey, let's learn about these issues. Like, it should be. in every conversation or, more than just those reflective days. because it really is important and that goes in, all aspects and all backgrounds. but that's really interesting. Like it gives me a little bit of hope. Hearing that the generation is being exposed to different types of history and content. And I'm a history major and when we talked about is historography, which is how history is written. And just debunking a lot of those pieces and what we thought before were primary sources are actually secondary now because it's just that very limited, white colonist lens, right? Totally. And I would say a lot of that, if you're interested in learning history, go to community. A lot of our stories are being passed down through community. Generations through elders and knowledge keepers and there's so many rich teachings

And when it comes to media, it's really exciting to see more Indigenous representation, Indigenous-led productions, and a bit more of this authentic storytelling making its way into mainstream platforms. Because representation matters, and the more we see these indigenous voices leading these stories, The better. And one that immediately comes to mind is Reservation Dogs on Disney+. I absolutely love that show. I laughed, I cried, I gasped. It was just such a powerful series and we're also seeing more Indigenous-led content here in Canada. Like the new CBC series, North of North, which looks fantastic. I haven't watched it yet, but it's definitely on my list. And then, of course, there's the film with Leonardo DiCaprio and Lily Gladstone. Which I cried so much from that movie I can't remember the name of the film off the top of my head, but that story was just so heavy. But so important to tell and I'm really happy to see these kind of narratives gaining more visibility because again representation matters and the more we see these indigenous voices leading these stories I think the better.

Killers of the flower moon. Yes. And I think it's like you said, it's bringing more awareness broadly To our population across Turtle Island, across North America, it's not just about acknowledging the pains and the harms, but also acknowledging the resilience and the strength of communities and all that they're contributing to our society

can share any examples of some successful reconciliation initiatives that you've personally been involved in or maybe some that you've seen that you've kind of been inspired by. Hmm. I would say, truly what inspires me the most is work that's grounded in the next generation in youth. and I'm so privileged that a lot of my work at Deloitte, intersects with that, but definitely want to highlight organizations like Inspire, Which are providing, bursaries and programming for Indigenous students, thousands of Indigenous students every year. really helping to break those socioeconomic barriers for access to education. Also, Indigenous Youth Roots, that is an Indigenous youth-led organization that really is collaborating to provide programs and grants and opportunities That are grounded in Indigenous ways of knowing and being, and really to strengthen and amplify the voices of Indigenous youth, which we've recently collaborated with them. to put out a series of papers that highlight the voices of Indigenous youth, on reconciliation and topics that are most meaningful for them. Our latest one was just released on sovereignty, But like I said, I think it's really empowering the next generation to shape what this journey is going to be. Understanding that it is longer term. it is these youth leaders that are growing up and going to shape what our country will be looking like. and there's so much strength in this next generation who are proud of their indigeneity. They are proud of their culture and language. There's been, a more of a reclamation around who they are. Which hasn't always been prevalent, at least in my parents' generation, with a lot of shame and fear and guilt and hate around what it meant for To be Indigenous and so I see that shifting and I see a lot of hope and excitement with the next generation for meaningful change. That's great to hear. I think everybody needs hope now. it's been so dwindling just with, the wars going on and the political scenes. I think you're right, we need to put that faith in the next generation and it's really great to see that you're being part of that and seeing that evolution as well. and again, wanting to see more of it and what are ways you think people can get More engaged, with Indigenous communities or, starting something in the workplace. Because going back to our earlier points, I think a lot of people feel like it's a barrier or feel like they don't know where to start. maybe even someone like myself, who doesn't have a lot of Indigenous connections, who's trying to make more in their network. do you have any advice on where people can start to look for these kind of resources? Totally. And I think there's so much out there. It's almost overwhelming these days. But I think, like you said, it's starting with even, the selection of entertainment. Whether it's books or movies or podcasts, there's so many incredible creators and authors out there to broaden your awareness and education. I think going into your workplace some organizations have employee resource groups that are connecting indigenous colleagues and allies together. And so being able to collaborate with, your peers that are also passionate about this is a good starting point. I think also looking to several not-for-profits and organizations, grassroots initiatives that are doing great work to advance reconciliation. I know the Gordione and Chani Wenjack Fund, for example. Doing great work on that front, perhaps there's opportunities to volunteer or just learn more about how you can create a meaningful partnership if you want to bring that back to your workplace. I think, even beyond that, communities are very welcoming and so if you're interested in learning more, Perhaps it's attending a pow wow or a ceremony and learning more and connecting with community members on that front. I think there's so many different ways to get involved. and I think beyond that, Indigenous economic reconciliation is surging across the country. I think there's been over like a hundred, indigenous communities who have now, announced formal, Relationships, whether that be equity partnerships or equity stakes in corporate Canada's reconciliation plans. And so I think there's a huge, business opportunity. but it really depends on, your ultimate goal or hope, to learn more or to be involved more, to grow your relationships, but so many different angles. That's great. and yes, I always tell people to, like, there's the internet. We have the world at our fingertips. Google, do the outreach. And I think it's just people need to put in the work. but that's great to hear that there are resources because I think, too, it might feel overwhelming at first, but it just starts off with that Google search or finding what your closest, Indigenous community in your own community. just starting there Totally. And even if you are in an urban setting, there are Indigenous friendship centers at majority of Urban places across the country. I think there's over 100 locations. And so I know at least in Toronto, there's, Toronto Council Fire. There's several different Indigenous hubs and organizations, even if you are in urban settings as well. And as we're kind of just wrapping up here what is the best piece of advice you've received and how has that shaped your mindset? And that could be either on a personal level or a professional level. I'm just curious. It's a good question. I think I've received tons of different advice over the years, but one that definitely stuck with me, I think just because it's core to the work that I'm doing now is continue to lead with your heart. you don't often hear that in a corporate landscape. you're often, you know, putting on your business hat and, I think as it relates to reconciliation, I've had a unique opportunity to tie my personal passion and purpose, my commitment to creating meaningful change and advancing reconciliation to my career. Really empowering youth, the next generation of leaders, but also Changing the minds and inspiring C-suite leaders, that this is important and breaking down those barriers. And so I think being able to lead with your heart It ensures that the passion is shining through. That's helping to, inspire followership, create strong relationships, being able to collaborate with others, and ultimately helping to rebuild trust and respect with communities. That was so beautifully said. I'm like getting a little emotional because I, no one's ever said that to me, but I feel like that's how I also kind of operate or more recently. before I was just like very go, go, go. And then I had a bit of a realization on what am I doing this for? Am I actually passionate work of doing? and that's what a bit inspired me about this podcast is. I know I'm passionate about hearing people's stories and wanting to share that. so that was very beautiful. And, thank you so much for sharing that. And it's really nice to hear that other people think that way or not, or not everybody, but it's really nice to hear that. we're kind of on that very similar wavelength as well because it's important. Like, you can balance your passion and things you're excited about with your job. it sounds really amazing and, work doesn't sound as much of a drag when you're leading with your heart and bringing that passion to the table. Totally. And it's amazing that you've been able to create this podcast even to share stories. I think so much of our work is about providing those opportunities for truth telling and storytelling amongst Indigenous peoples and allies. Really, really appreciate the opportunity to connect, Julia. this was such a rich conversation. So any other closing thoughts, Alexandra, that you wanted to share to our listeners or maybe something we didn't cover? Hmm. It's a good question. I would say, be open to learning, be open-minded, be open to listening. Like you said, everyone has a story to tell. I think taking the time and opportunity to really learn and change your perspective, will go, go very far, no matter what, career or personal objectives that you're trying to evolve. Well, thank you so much, Alexandra. That was Alexandra Biron Senior Manager at Deloitte, Indigenous. And I want to thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much. Thank you, Julia. Great to see you.

And that's a wrap of another episode of #FEMPIRE I hope you enjoyed today's conversation and took away something new and inspiring. Be sure to tune in next week as we bring you another incredible story from a trailblazing female leader. Thanks for listening to #FEMPIRE I'm your host, Julia Pennella and see you next time.