Ep 10: Empathy as Revolution - Confronting Racism Across Borders

Nneka Allen opens our conversation with a profound declaration: she's a "reluctant entrepreneur" whose path to founding the Empathy Agency Inc emerged from confronting the very real inequities Black people face within the charitable sector. As a proud descendant of African survivors of the Transatlantic Slave Trade, her perspective comes from personal history and professional experience spanning over two decades.

What makes this episode particularly compelling is Nneka’s ability to express complex ideas about race with clarity, conviction, and unfiltered truth—especially when she says, “Black women are ground zero in times of crisis, and when white people feel pain, Black people pay the price.” She introduces the concept of “brave spaces” rather than “safe spaces” for conversations about racism, explaining that these dialogues are inherently uncomfortable and risky—but necessary for growth. She also shares the intention behind her bi-weekly Afro-centric gathering, Exhale for Black Women, where Black women can come together without navigating white judgment or expectations, particularly as employment conditions become increasingly precarious.

Perhaps most revealing is Nneka's challenge to Canada's carefully cultivated international image. While many Canadians pride themselves on multiculturalism and distance themselves from America's racial problems, Nneka methodically dismantles this narrative in our conversation and in her co-authored book, Collecting Courage. She explains how Canada's 200-year history of slavery has been effectively erased through marketing campaigns. Unlike America's current attempts to suppress a documented history through attacks on critical race theory, Canada faces a different challenge—profound ignorance about its own racist past.

The power of storytelling emerges as a central theme throughout our conversation. Collecting Courage features first-person accounts from Black fundraisers across North America, documenting experiences that challenge the presumed moral superiority of charitable organizations. As she powerfully states, "First-person narratives are the stuff of history"—and control over these narratives shapes public understanding.

Does empathy have limits when confronting systemic racism? Can conflict actually strengthen relationships? How do we recognize when "respect" and "professionalism" are being weaponized to silence necessary conversations? These questions and more await in this thought-provoking episode.

Listen now and join us for part two, where we'll explore activism in the social media age and hear Nneka's moving story of walking in her ancestors' footsteps.

Follow Nneka's work:

Website: https://www.theempathyagency.ca/meet-the-founder

Bsky: https://bsky.app/profile/nnekaallen.bsky.social

Substack: https://substack.com/@nnekaallen

Transcript

Welcome back to Hashtag Fempire. Today's episode is a powerful journey through history, healing, and hope. We are sitting down with the brilliant Anika Allen, a storyteller, leadership coach, and change maker whose work is rooted in justice, empathy, and identity. Anika is a proud daughter of the Underground Railroad, descending from African survivors of the transatlantic slave trade, and her

00:00:30 Unknown: extends to the Cherokee and Lumbee nations. Raised in the era of Black power and political awakening, Anika brings that legacy into everything she does, from her twenty-five years in the charitable sector to founding the Empathy Agency, Inc., and the Black Canadian Fundraisers Collective. In this episode, we talk about what it means to lead with empathy, build authentic relationships in the

00:00:58 Unknown: of injustice, and confront the systematic challenges Black people face in society and the workplace. From oppression and mental health struggles Anika also shares insights from her co-authored book, Collecting Courage, a powerful collection of first-person stories from Black fundraisers across North America. These intimate

00:01:22 Unknown: narratives expose the racism and injustice often hidden within the charitable sector. From being overlooked and underpaid to enduring toxic hostile workplaces. Their testimonies chip away at the idea of the inherent goodness of the charitable sector. This episode is about roots, resilience, and reimagining the way we connect with ourselves, each other, with nature, and the communities we serve. So let's dive in with Anika Allen.

00:02:01 Unknown: Anika, thanks so much for joining us. I'm so glad to be here with you again, Julia. Really excited for the conversation. So I want to start off, Anika, you're the founder of the Empathy Agency, Inc., such a compelling name. Can you share the story behind how it all started and what kind of work you do through your organization? Absolutely. So I think it's important for me to say up front, I consider myself a reluctant entrepreneur. I was one of those people who wasn't sure what I wanted to do growing up, mainly because I There was no language for the things that I was good at or at least I didn't hear the language for those things that I thought I was good at. So it was several years down the road after becoming mom that I Fell into fundraising and written quite a bit about that. In my experience as a fundraiser, however, I discovered The very real inequities that exist for people of color and black people in particular and my own experience began to shape my path forward. And so in around 2016, 2017, I decided that I would go back to school while also working and I decided to study intercultural communications and Through that experience, I began to understand my role and responsibility as it relates to the charitable sector where I had spent twenty years of my career and I knew that my responsibility was shifting and that's what propelled me into Entrepreneurship. Now, the name the empathy agency is really interesting because I didn't actually name my business. A really dear friend at the time did. And it came out of us exploring, well, how do we communicate with people about issues of race in ways that are really meaningful and that create connection? And we found this experiment. I can't think of the name of the experiment right now, but if you Google this, it will come up. It's an experiment where they brought strangers together and they sat one-on-one facing each other and they just looked into each other's eyes for four minutes without saying anything. And the result of that experiment was that these strangers felt more connected. And when they started to interview them about how they felt about the other person and whatnot, it was really interesting to hear how they felt connected, but also they had a sense of empathy. And so that's what sort of got us thinking about, okay, well, what is this? What is the fabric of empathy? And what does this have to do with or what role might this play? In helping people better understand the realities of racially oppressed people, namely Black people. And so it was my friend who said, well, your company should be named the Empathy Agency. And so that stuck. And so in 2018, I got really brave and registered the name and didn't look back. Beautiful story. And you're doing things that are aligned with your own values and being able to, unfortunately, we live in this capitalist society, so you got to make money. But what is it like for you to balance things that you're really proud of and aligned with Well, I don't think I'm your traditional entrepreneur. I, I'm a person of faith. And I sort of said to God, If this is what I'm supposed to be doing, if this is the work I'm supposed to, like, all roads are leading in this direction, this direction I do not want to go in. If I do this, Then, like, the rest has gotta fall into place, right? And so I had to believe that there was purpose in this for me. There was Some providence in this. And so I've committed myself to this purpose. And that purpose evolves. And so my job is to stay connected to what that is. What is my role and responsibility in the current circumstance? And this is not to say that, you know, the money just magically appears, but I don't believe in chasing money. I think that chasing money is a central feature of capitalism. And that's not what I'm interested in. I'm interested in social change. I'm interested in heart change, not just for other people, but also for myself. I firmly believe that our gifts make room for us. And so if I stay in the pocket of my gifts in what I believe is my purpose, then I'll be taken care of. Beautifully said. And as we're talking about the vision you've had for the Empathy Agency, one thing I want to point out is every other Thursday you have an Afrocentric space. Where people can come and unload, connect, share, exhale. And I really love this piece as well that you have on your website of nourish our souls together. So who can participate in this space and why is it important for you to create it in the first place? Thank you for that question. So this space is a very special space that I've created for black women. And the reason why it's for Black women is because I am noticing more and more in the last five months, since the beginning of the year, That employment circumstances for black women are becoming more and more precarious. The rate at which I'm hearing from my colleagues and friends about the anti-Blackness they're experiencing in their organizations The number of people I know that have been let go, Black women primarily, in the same period of time. is astounding. And so I believe it's critical to create a place for Black women to come where they do not have to think about Or be subject to white gaze, the judgments of whiteness, the pressures of whiteness. I think that there are very few places where black women can do that. And so I might not be able to change the employment circumstance for them. But I can create a space for them to come to lay down their burdens and perhaps commiserate with other Black women who are in the same circumstances. I know that community has always been a solution. For my ancestors and for my family. And so this is a version of community. This is a type of community where there are shared experiences, shared burdens. And I know in communal spaces, magic exists. Yeah, beautifully said and I think it's just so important obviously with this very specific issue but even when we're talking about mental health just to know you're not alone, because I think despite social media, this illusion that we're connected and we're plugged in, we really are very isolated and there's an individualist Idea, I think, around our society. So being able to have these safe spaces to know what happened to you or what you experience is real and valid. And having someone else I think an external body say that is so powerful and making you feel somewhat at peace with it and not think that I'm outlandish or I'm overthinking this because I think that's unfortunately as women too, we get put into these feelings where we could talk about medical gaslighting and all these other factors. It's great to hear that space and I hope it continues to grow. But as we're talking about racism and discrimination, these pieces can be really intimidating for people to talk about. Especially if they don't have those shared lived experiences or worry it's not their place to speak up. How can individuals and workplaces start having more meaningful, respectful conversations around race? And what does that dialogue look like? I want to touch on the word respect in that question, but also I want to talk about safe spaces. So I don't believe in safe spaces. I believe in safer spaces. And I believe absolutely in brave spaces. And there's a distinction there, right? Because brave spaces allow us to be imperfect. It allows us to be messy. It invites humanity into the space. It means the space won't be perfect, and that's okay. We can make safer spaces, and certainly I would say Exhale for Black Women is designed to be a safer, brave space. To reveal what is real for you. I think that's the most we can hope for. So I think safer and brave in particular, brave spaces are necessary for To have the conversation we need to have around racism and discrimination wherever you are. And so the question becomes, well, how do you do that? Right? Well, I think you have to center humanity, as I mentioned, which means imperfection is welcomed. There are no experts. We are all perhaps on a journey, some of us in the direction of justice. And we don't have to all be in the same space. We have the right to start somewhere. And so how the environment is cultivated matters deeply. And so I recently created a new space online for people to bring their questions around. It's called Tea Time. And tea is an acronym for the Empathy Agency. So it's Tea Time with Anika. And you can visit my tea time on Substack and you can bring your questions about race and there's an anonymous feature. And I'll answer them. I'll answer your questions right there. I think it's important to dispel ourselves of the myth that Having conversations about race will feel comfortable. These conversations are inherently risky, which is also the reason why the notion of safe spaces kind of conflicts with that. And so there is risk in asking the question and the risk revolves around vulnerability and it revolves around perhaps not getting it right and that's okay. I want to touch on respect. So respect is one of these interesting words that we hear but may mean different things to different people. It's often also used as a way to gatekeep conversations around race. It's a way to try to control race. The tenor and tone debate around race. And so I like to ask people when they use the word respect, like, what does that mean? What does respect look like to you? And usually when people answer that question a more vivid way, picture of what they're envisioning comes to life and that's critical because conversations around race aren't just, you know, calm Quote, professional conversations. I mean, professional is another one of those words like respect that's used to sort of control and dominate the way something is done. And so I think we have to throw off this idea that conflict in debate around race is useless. It's actually quite useful. And so how do we bring ourselves to those kinds of conversations? What resources do we need to engage in risky conversations that might result in in some conflict? You know, what are our beliefs about conflict? I happen to believe that conflict is really useful in relationships. It has the capacity to make our relationships deeper. In the book This Here Flesh by Cole Arthur Riley, she talks about durable relationships. Durable relationships can withstand truth-telling and conflict. Those are the things that we need to be engaging in. To have durable relationships. So this is absolutely true generally and particularly true if we're going to explore race and what it means to us personally and to the people around us. Yeah, I really appreciate that and I think what's coming to mind for me as well is just how powerful words are and how we interpret them and what they mean because like you said for every person it could mean a different thing and I never thought of that piece about safer spaces, that ER at the end really makes the difference of how can we have these kind of spaces to talk about whatever the issues are because it's never going to be perfect. We don't live in a utopia and that's the reality. And as we're talking about words and really powerful, you and I have talked about how writing is a bit of a healing process to Makes sense of what's happening, but just as a way to process is, I think, a big piece. And I want to point to your sub stack titled You're Killing Us, Whiteness at Work. And you open up the sub stack with a very powerful quote from Resmaa Menachem, author of My Grandmother's Hands. And I'm going to read the quote here. The Black Heart. End quote. Yeah, I think the quote was, Makes a few things very clear from the outset. When we're talking about the Black heart, so we're talking about Black people and their reality. I think it's important to be specific about whose liberation you're talking about or whose pain you're talking about. And I think his words Paint a vivid picture of what's happening to the heart, soul, and psyche of Black people. And hopefully when people read that quote as an opener, questions emerge. Well, what does this look like in real time? You know, where have I seen this in my life or in my community? What role and responsibility might I have toward this? Do I actually understand this issue? So I think it offers a wake up to the reader. It's sort of like Well, when I read it, I feel alert. So what's the story that that's going to be told to illuminate this in really human ways? And I think that article was really critical for me to write because it was a way for me to express what I had mentioned about What I've been noticing since the beginning of the year in the charitable sector, but not exclusively in the charitable sector, but particularly the assault on Black women and their employment. I'm the type of person who writes to both process pain Pain particularly in circumstances I may not have control over. I think truth telling is a critical element of the pursuit of justice. I believe I have a responsibility to illuminate what I see but also how I've experienced the same thing so that People in my community have a better understanding of what my life is like and what the lives of other Black women like me are like. Yeah, and like you said, I think you were really spot on with choosing that quote because when I had finished reading it, I had to take that step back and just reflect, okay, I understand the intention of this, but what does this all mean? What does this mean more broadly outside of the sub stack of what kind of conversations are we having around microaggressions and this lack of regard? I've pointed out some of those themes and I want to go in more specifically of two lines that really stood out for me in your piece was, I'm going to quote it here, black women are always ground zero in times of crisis. When white people feel any kind of pain, black people pay a price. Now, that was such a powerful statement and it really goes beyond just the words on the page. So what did it mean for you to write that? And what did you hope readers would really sit with or take away from Reading that powerful line. Mm-hmm. So I, I think these lines and Resna's quote and the article in totality, I really wanted people, the reader, to feel the violence. The violence of what's occurring. And it's interesting to me because as I share in the article, this more recent assault on Black people and Black women in particular that I'm witnessing It started at the beginning of this year, so shortly after the U.S. election and the inauguration of their now president. And it's interesting to me because the examples that I'm giving are primarily Canadian experiences and examples. And yet the influence of American culture and politics, I want to say was permeating, but it's more than permeating. It is influencing in real time what's happening in Canadian workplaces. Like, there was almost no gap of time. I can remember meeting with a client who works for a municipality in Ontario and she was saying, I can already feel the effect. I can already see the navigating away from diversity and inclusion in the city. She could already see it happening. This was February. And so... I saw that, I was watching that happen, and then every time I turned around, somebody else was in contact with me sharing another version of that. And it made me remember what happened five years ago During COVID and a very similar thing occurred then. It happened to me. It happened to other Black women. And I can think back over time where there has been crisis. Or change that's created pressure. People in power who are predominantly white and their response Consistently has been put pressure on Black people. So that could be excluding Black people. That could be making circumstances impossible for Black people. There's always this residual effect that lands first on the heads of Black people. And so that's why I wrote that. Because that's actually what I have seen my entire life. We are ground zero. When white people are uncomfortable, they inevitably have to transfer that pain or that discomfort that they feel On us. And in fact, in the piece, I say they blow their trauma through black bodies. Mm, yeah. It's so evident and it frustrates me when we look at history. This isn't also the first instance we can point to so many of different areas of crises. You want to even talk about Flint, Michigan and the water system there and the racial, I don't know the specific word they've been using, but I think like racial environmentalism and climate change and why we're not looking at these very serious issues. COVID. Who was one of the most biggest population that passed away? It was black people. They work in the essential roles. They're the bus drivers. They're the caregivers in the hospitals. So it's the list can go on and on. The differences in mindset between Canada and the U.S. and how we interpret racism. So in your book, Collecting Courage, you and your co-authors lay bare the lived experiences of black fundraisers in Canada and the U.S., And I want to point to the introduction that you wrote. And right away, you challenged this myth of Canada as an inclusive place that's somehow separate from the history of racism that we often associate with the United States. And you very vividly remind readers that both countries share a legacy of slavery and colonialism. And that spans with Black people, Indigenous people, and that Canada's hands aren't clean just because there weren't plantations here. Why do you think Canada and the U.S., despite such similar foundations, have ended up with such different reputations when it comes to race? And what does that disconnect mean for how we talk about racism here in Canada? Mm-hmm. There's three things that I think are top of mind when I think of these questions. One, I think that volume of people is one consideration. So fewer enslaved people in Canada than in the United States. So in the United States, very hard to hide. Because of the sheer volume. Right? So I think that's one. Two, as I mentioned in the introduction, plantations didn't exist here because of The environment, the climate. So the, so the way in which enslaved people, served was more hidden. Inside homes. And so I think that also plays a role. But I think the bigger piece here and Robin Maynard in her book Policing Black Lives really lays this history out very well. Marketing is the third piece and she talks in her book about the convergence of multiculturalism in Canada. Along with the Canadian flag. So the dates for those two things intersect. And there's quite a bit of strategy around the image of Canada. So that's a part of it. And then also the narratives around the Underground Railroad. And so if you marry these things together, You get the erasure of 200 years of enslavement in Canada. You get the complete and absolute erasure of historically Black communities across the country. Because there's preferred narratives and there has been real marketing campaigns on the part of our government. To sell us this image of multiculturalism and the cultural mosaic and our flag is wrapped around it and after all we were the final destination of the Underground Railroad. And so this brings us back to the power of narratives, the stories we tell ourselves. And this is why the dangers of a singular story really emerge. For us, the stories of descendants of the underground railroads, stories of Black Empire loyalists, the stories of Folks who descended from enslaved people have to be told. And from a narrative perspective, Canada is light years behind the United States as it relates to those narratives. Really good points and I want to flip it back to maybe even the US and when we're talking about narratives and this idea of erasing history because that is what we're seeing before our eyes. The fact that Trump even just changed The name of Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of America. Very telling tactics of how fascism works. But when we look at the U.S., Critical race theory is also under attack, and it's become this divisive discourse when it, in actuality, is just talking about the history, what has happened. But there's this sense from the rights and the Republicans to erase this piece of American history, what America was essentially built on. What do you think that is signaling to people and, again, that fear of spilling into Canada? How can we, I don't know, overcome this narrative or what can we do to try and prevent that from spilling here even though it is coming? So that's a really interesting question because I think we're used to what's happening in the United States spilling over into Canada and certainly I think there is a commiseration of cultural... Beans that cross the border. However, on this particular issue, it's interesting because in the United States, they're trying to erase a history that is has been fairly documented. And lives in communities, is alive in large communities of Black people who descended from enslaved people, right? In Canada, we're dealing with ignorance more than anything else. Because the average Canadian does not know that there was 200 years of slavery in Canada. The erasure of that history has been done so well that the average Canadian doesn't know. And so the cultural spillover that you're talking about is spilling over onto Ignorance. And so answer to me cases back to stories, the stories we tell, why it becomes even more critical. That racially oppressed people are telling their stories, that they're documenting their stories. That's why at the beginning of Collecting Courage, our inscription said, you have to document your life. Our voices, our power. That is true. First person narratives are the stuff of history. History books. Yes, yes. Right? Whose first person narratives are being told frequently? That's the answer. I know we might like to think it's just purely education, but it's actually more than that. It literally comes down to whose narratives do we hear? And we live storied lives. Stories are everywhere around us. Right? Are we telling more stories and not the same stories?

00:29:43 Unknown: That's a wrap on this episode, but don't go too far. Anika and I continue this powerful conversation in part two, where we dive even deeper into the stories behind Collecting Courage. We explore what activism looks like in the age of social media, where a like or a repost can feel like enough, but often isn't. And Anika shares a moving personal story about walking in the footsteps of her

00:30:12 Unknown: Part two will give you goosebumps and leave you asking, how can I do better with this one precious life? I'm your host, Julia Piniella. This is Hashtag Vampire, and I'll catch you on the next episode.